Now in its fourth year, the Wii's target demographic is abundantly clear -- it's a console for the masses with a library primarily aimed at a more casual audience.
While it has turned out to be a brilliant move for Nintendo overall, some Wii software publishers have had a difficult time drawing core gamers away from Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3, particularly in the highly-competitive first-person shooter genre.
But the recently-announced GoldenEye 007 James Bond remake for Wii from Activision and Eurocom might strike a unique balance between hardcore and the so-called "casual" audience. Released in 1997 on N64, Rare's original GoldenEye 007 was a shooter staple for hardcore gamers, who dumped massive amounts of time into four-player split-screen deathmatches and a memorable single-player game.
For many of those hardcore gamers, the GoldenEye name -- and the nostalgia that comes with it -- is tied closely to Nintendo. And with the new game releasing in 2010 as a Wii exclusive, shooter fans might give the casual-focused machine a second look. Or at least that's what Activision GoldenEye producer Julian Widdows is hoping.
"I think there's an awareness within Nintendo as well as in Activision that the Wii has potential that hasn't been realized yet, and that's [capturing] the rest of the core audience," Widdows said in a phone interview with Gamasutra. "Talking to Nintendo, one of the reasons why they have the Classic Controller Pro was to make the platform more accessible to the core gamer. Some might not necessarily want to play a core gaming experience with a Wii Remote."
Core gamers may appreciate GoldenEye's compatibility with the more traditional dual-stick Classic Controller, but the potential problems selling the new GoldenEye to core gamers go deeper than the control scheme. First-person shooters generally just don't sell well on the platform, particularly when compared to FPS games on the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3.
Widdows acknowledged that challenge. "It's something that we're aware of, but it's not a concern," he said. "We're confident that [GoldenEye] holds such a special place in gamers' hearts and gaming history, it's not only going to attract people who game, but attract more people wholesale." Activision is aiming for a less-restrictive Teen rating for the title, which could broaden the audience.
Asked why FPS games struggle on Wii, despite the console's seemingly point-and-shoot-friendly interface, Widdows said, "I think there are a few factors. One of the reasons is the core games genre. It doesn't necessarily have that massively wide casual appeal, it's for a certain type of gamer."
He added, "Cross-platform ownership is pretty significant, so a lot of those gamers have Xbox 360, PS3 and Wii at the same time. So they have to have a reason to come to the game on the Wii. That's the reason why cross-platform shooters haven't necessarily been all that successful on the Wii. When [core gamers] have a choice of which platform to buy a game for, they don't necessarily choose Wii if they've got all three consoles."
"People have a very good reason to come to [Wii]. It's the only place you can get a GoldenEye experience in 2010," he said, suggesting a single-console release could actually benefit the game's appeal.
Talks about reviving GoldenEye came around about about two years ago, Widdows said. Eurocom worked on the generally well-received Xbox, GameCube and PS2 game James Bond 007: Nightfire, released in 2002. The experience made the studio a natural selection for a new James Bond game.
"It was one of those ideas that began to gain traction pretty quickly. ... The conversation was quite an easy one, and it just picked up pace there," said Widdows. "On everyone's mind is ... incredible excitement but a paralyzing fear of making a wrong decision, because you are [updating] a much-beloved franchise."
"With GoldenEye, we're walking such, such a fine line between delivering something that's appropriately nostalgic and something that's an appropriate and contemporary gaming experience," he said.
Besides the stigma of casual-only appeal and the existence of the Wii remote, there's another major reason why hardcore gamers don't play the Wii: graphics. The Wii is essentially two Gamecubes mushed together, and the graphics level naturally follows that. Gamers, unfortunately, are attracted more to shiny things over anything of real substance like story or game mechanics.
Ever seen Call of Duty 4 on the Wii? Doom on my original Playstation looks better (and has a better frame rate). CoD4 also falls into that niche mentioned in the article of cross-platform availability. If it already looks better, runs better, and has better or more features on the XBox 360, Playstation 3, or PC, why bother playing it on the Wii? The ability to wave the Nunchuk to throw grenades in Call of Duty 3 was amusing for three seconds, but did nothing to overshadow the poor quality of the game itself.
Now Nintendo is resorting to remaking the classics that garnered them the hardcore Nintendo fans. Nostalgia can only take you so far. Just look at Hollywood's lazy attempt at generating movie sales by remaking films from as early as eight or even five years prior (here's looking at you, Hulk movies and Fast and the Furious). GoldenEye isn't the only game going through this: Ocarina of Time and Star Fox 64 are getting the same treatment on the Nintendo 3DS. You may think that's not the same, but look at this... Classic game + updated graphics + gimmicky hardware feature = same thing.
I know Nintendo isn't even close to being the only company to remake the classics. But they are the only ones hoping to convert an entire demographic to their cause; a demographic that they essentially abandoned while going for the "golden demographic" of the casual or non-gamer. By now, hardcore gamers know where the action is at, and no amount of rehashing will bring the majority of them back to Nintendo. Kris Graft nailed it on the first sentence.
Besides, the Perfect Dark release on XBox Live Arcade is the best example of nostalgia done right.
I think there are three main reasons the Wii fails to please the hardcore audience.
1. Controls
They are not nearly precise enough and often times unresponsive.
2. Online service
Nintendo's online service is just abysmal. Period.
3. Graphics
Wii is the bottom of the barrel. Why play this crappy looking thing when a PS3, 360 or even a subpar pc doesn't cost much more? Why did I spend that money on an HD tv if the system can't even handle it?
When the hardcore gamers are going to go play a game, they have a choice. Would they choose something like TF2, MW2 or Halo?
Or are they going to choose "Goldeneye" on Wii starring Daniel Craig?
I don't think, that GoldenEye will be a success, but that hasn't anything to do with the Core potential of the console. The Wii has many successful core gamer titles, Super Mario, Zelda, Metroid are all Core franchises and they do extremly well on the Wii.
GoldenEye's primary feature on the other hand isn't to be a core game, but to be a FPS. All FPS are Core games, but not all Core games are FPS and it seems, that Jump'n'Runs, while being Core games at the heart, aren't successful on the 360/PS3 and FPS, while being Core games at the heart, aren't successful on the Wii. I wouldn't say the PS3 isn't a Core console, because Little Big Planet has only mediocre sales, the 360 didn't have any Jump'n'Run at all, but still has many other games aimed at a Core audience. The same applies to the Wii and FPS.
The flop of many FPS-titles on the Wii has many reasons. Technical reasons are part of the problem, but not the main problem. Red Steel 2 did ok for Ubisoft (according to their own statements) and the reason was, that it took the first person mechanics to a new, Wii-type level. Metroid did ok on the Wii, cause it avoided to be a FPS at all. Both of these titles are Wii-exclusives and both are aimed at a Core audience.
It seems Wii-players are interested in first person games, that are different from the traditional FPS.
As for the article: Did anyone else read: ""People have a very good reason to come to [Wii]. It's the only place you can get a GoldenEye experience in 2010,"
that seems like if it tanks we can expect GoldenEye XBLA or PSN for $15... I think I'll hold off and see if it happens.
I'm fairly certain that Nintendo retained the rights to GoldenEye after Rare left. I don't think Activision will be able to port the game elsewhere. Then again, I feel no need to purchase this remake since I already have the original working just fine on the console it was designed for.
Retro experiences really only work well if it has been long enough that only the strange still possess the console in good working order.
Then again, my intense bias against this game may stem from my loathing of Activision.
Nintendo are the only developer who make AAA titles for their console and market them appropriately. The interviewee at least acknowledges that downgraded ports will never sell nearly as well as on the HD console for the obvious reason, although all the COD titles have sold in excess of 1m, not too shabby considering that a lot of modern gamers desire high-end graphics as the number one priority. If Activision give this game a decent marketing push, it should rake in respectable numbers. However, Blood Stone was given much more press attention at its announcement than GoldenEye at E3, so it may be yet another case of a publisher 'hoping for the best' but not willing to shell out for the marketing these traditional games need to succeed.
Nintendo's mistake was that by making their console significantly weaker, third-party exclusives were the only ones likely to sell, yet despite lower development costs, it's still seen as risky to invest too much in a single-console title. A bit of a Catch-22 for all concerned, not helped by the reams of lousy ports third parties released when the Wii was first successful, thus convincing traditional gamers that the console was not for them.
Still, I'm looking forward to this game. GE007 (N64) is my favourite game of all time, so any inspiration they're taking from that game (they've got cheats, non-linear play and stealth in place, all good) plus some modernising (better signposting, not too fond of regenerating health though) is all good in my book.
Why have First Person Shooters struggled on the Nintendo Wii? I'll choose to apply Occam's Razor - most of the FPS games aren't very good. Good games find an audience. And the Wii market will not settle for leftovers and shovelware by the third-string development teams. They demand quality and they're entitled to it.
Last year's Modern Warfare: Reflex Edition seems to have done fairly well (I still haven't played it myself, but I've respected Treyarch ever since their Tony Hawk Pro Skater ports on the Dreamcast). But notice that this was the previous Call of Duty. Meanwhile, the HD Twins got the brand-new Modern Warfare 2, one of the year's hottest games. Where was the Wii version? Why was the most successful console ignored?
This only reinforces the belief that third-party developers do not respect the Wii and its audience. Rightly or wrongly, that audience will become more skeptical over time, and less willing to shell out money for future games. We see this unfold many times. Cartoonish, dumbed-down EA Sports games (notice how Tiger Woods '10, the one "serious" title, is the biggest hit). Dead Space Extraction and Resident Evil Darkside, first-person and third-person adventure games reduced to lightgun shooters, for a console over-saturated with lightgun shooters. PS2 ports like Need for Speed. Yadda yadda...you get the idea.
The bottom line is that developers must respect the platform. This is a motto for all developers, whether it's console, handheld, standard, hi-def, online, or cell phones. Respect the Platform - and respect the audience. Understand what they want, and understand what voids need to be filled. You can't just dump anything on the market and expect a hit.
Are there any great FPS titles on Wii that include 4-player splitscreen? I can't think of one. That's something I've wanted on the Wii ever since the beginning - a fast, intense, multiplayer deathmatch game. I want arcade games. I want Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament. And this void has yet to be filled.
GoldenEye was a shocking surprise to me at E3. I never would have expected it, even though it's precisely what I've been craving. This fits perfectly with the neo-retro vibe of the times, with Donkey Kong Country and Kirby and NBA Jam and Super Mario Bros 5. The Wii has quietly evolved into the second coming of the Super NES, and I think it's long due. Finally, here is an angle for frustrated third-party developers.
The issue of lapsed gamers has never been fully addressed. It's assumed that people always jump to the next generation console, but this hasn't happened. Many classic gamers, fans of 2D games, were left at the side of the road since the Playstation generation. I personally lost most of my interest after Dreamcast died. The arcade game values were discarded, in favor of cinematic games. I think the rise of the new media (internet, mobile, Wii) and social gaming has helped to bring these values back.
I don't know if GoldenEye Wii will become a great game or become a hit. Like many gamers, I remain skeptical but hopeful. I want this game to succeed. I think most of us want that. It does manages to fill a niche in what will be a very crowded holiday season, with Donkey Kong Country, Wii Party, and Just Dance 2 getting all the attention (to say nothing of Mario 5, Wii Fit, and Mario Kart). But the video game scene has always been highly competitive. The arcades were always densely packed with machines, and if classic games could survive and thrive in that highly competitive environment, they can do so here.
I'm terrible at predictions, but count me as cautiously optimistic. I'm crossing my fingers.
@Owen: The whole 2 gamecubes strapped together analogy has been beaten to death, buried, then turned into a zombie by a necromancer so it can be beaten some more. Sales of the Wii have shown it's far more than the sum of its parts. Moving on.
I think that this could be a great move for the Wii specifically because it combines nostalgia with a very popular IP (Bond) and puts it into a package that would probably be easy to consume. There's a lot of potential here, and I'm pretty sure the designers aren't trying to go head to head with CoD over this one.
This could also be a chance to appeal to a new, young generation of hardcore gamers. When N64 came out, it was the casual console compared with the marketing of Saturn and Playstation. Also, at the time the really hardcore systems were souped-up PCs. Yet Goldeneye managed to make the N64 seem cool. I think they could do it again.
@Gregory Whether it has or not, it's still pertinent to the reason why hardcore gamers shy away from the Wii, which was my point. The "success" of the Wii has largely been built on its ability, as I mentioned, to tap the previously disinterested crowd of casual and non-gamers. Its ease of pick-up-and-play mechanics has allowed the rest of the family to join in with the gamers in the household, or to provide extra entertainment at the next party. But the hardware running this console isn't much in comparison with the competition. And it's the competition that is pushing the boundaries of console abilities instead of merely relying on the same tired gimmicks.
I should also mention that the Wii's cheap price and the fact that most of the shovelware crap developed for it winds up in the bargain bin quickly is a good factor to the Wii's high sales numbers.
"The "success" of the Wii has largely been built on its ability, as I mentioned, to tap the previously disinterested crowd of casual and non-gamers."
I don't know, if the "previously disinterested crowd of casual and non-gamers" would buy a 2D Super Mario, that's difficult and frustrating to master or something like Super Smash Bros Brawl, which is only fun, when you are familiar with generations of Nintendo characters.
I guess it would fail the same way GoldenEye Rogue Agent did. Try to bring coolness to the Gamecube with a bit of nostalgia in name.
This is what Nintendo does. They appeal to the casual crowd first, now they are trying to attract "hardcore" gamers by nostalgia, releasing a new Donkey Kong side scroller, Kirby, NBA Jam, Goldeneye.
When I was 16, I might have fallen for this stuff of simply trying to attack my nostalgia. Just reminding me of the "good ol" days is not how you sell a game to get a good following. Nintendo, let's create some new IPs instead of just feeding off nostalgia.
I mean that other FPS for the Wii..I forget the name(Goverment Conspiracies and such..), but it was apparently supposed to bring the hardcore to the Wii finally. It didn't. Now they say this will, Goldeneye. Nostalgia can fool people into buying something, but if thats all it has to offer, it will fall flat on its face.
"When I was 16, I might have fallen for this stuff of simply trying to attack my nostalgia."
GoldenEye is from 1997, if you were 16 today, it would mean, you were 3, when GoldenEye was released, seems pretty useless to me, to appeal to the nostalgia of a 16 year old. 16 year olds usually have no sense of nostalgia, cause they are way to young for such things.
I use to be addicted with GoldenEye on the N64, but i will pass on this. i just sel my Wii a few days ago....it was collecting dust and dust....and dust.....and dust.
"I think there's an awareness within Nintendo as well as in Activision that the Wii has potential that hasn't been realized yet, and that's [capturing] the rest of the core audience,"
widdows is 100% correct, once nintendo addresses the (insightful) problems andrew raises above. so maybe next cycle? to think that a hard core gamer is going to buy a wii for a better gaming experience is like saying....hey, let' go to the shooting range and cack off a box of blanks.
in the mean time, goldeneye looked like a blast at E3...if you're under 13 years old.
Owen and Aaron are both so wrong. Nintendo appealed to the Nintendo fan first when Zelda, Mario, Metroid, Super Smash Bros ,and Mario Kart were all promised early in the Wii life. They also put out ports and sequels to popular gamecube games. Those games made damn sure the core Nintendo fan would pick up a Wii a launch.
They appealed to the new gamers and expanded audience with Wii Sports and Wii Play. That was their big draws for that crowed until Wii Fit hit.
Nintendo began appealing to the lost gamers or retro gamers from the start with the Virtual console. The release of Super Mario Bros Wii expanded their appeal to those gamers (that game appeals to any type of gamer but it is a 2d plat former). This year they are going full retro, which also helps grab and keep those new gamers and Nintendo gamers.
My guess is the end of this year will lead into the year that they go more core with more motion plus games, rpgs and action games. I say this because Zelda ( their top motion plus game) is next year and most likely other core games that were released in Japan will come out over here next year.
I only mentioned Nintendo games because that is what the Wii sells on. Third parties have just been adding filler with a gem here and there.
GoldenEye has a chance if it is a great game. It will not open the flood gates of third parties making top FPS games for the Wii even if it did COD numbers. That ship has sailed. I really don’t think it would change anything at all no matter how it does. No other third party core game that sold well changed anything so why would this one. Third parties will not stop making core games since many have already failed to sell.
@leon, no one here is really disputing Wii or Nintendo's success or GoldeEye's potential for success, as far as I can deduce. there's some bashing and koolaid drinking going on in both camps. but that's just us, right ;)
i do hear a thematic argument, that I agree with, in that core players are not going to buy a Wii to play this updated port. it's not going to get nintendo into that older market place. they may sell another gazillion units, but not to older/core gamers, in my opinion. the stats just don't add up for that to happen.
btw- there's a specific reason why nintendo has the majority of the hits too. ask any publisher why.
I believe that half the commenters here are actually viral marketers who saw another shot at dissing the Wii for absolute no reason.
The matter of the fact would be, if Nintendo aimed at the hardcore, it would be dead since the hardcore is dying. The Wii is a nice assembly of not only complete new players but also former gamers. People who left gaming after the US-implosion of 1983, or gamers that left with the 2D-3D transition mid 1990's. So in a way...the Wii is the most hardcore console of all three. It even revived some hardcore favorite genres and series. Or...how slighty shifting what the hardcore is can change someone's analysis.
Nintendo actually did a few simple things this generation
1) Nintendo recognized that graphics don't matter anymore with the avaiable power. So why make a far more expensive console? Sales, not only of the Wii, but also the recent 2D-revival all over the internet, has proven them right.
2) Nintendo recognized that everyone else that didn't game has some valid reasons for this aka Nintendo realized that the "casual" audience is actually quite critical and needs special tailored games for it. Nintendo then put their best teams on making those games. Nintendo's games selling gangbusters while third string ports not selling at all proves their point.
The Wii audience demands high quality games, far more then the actual "hardcore" who will shovel out money for anything hype-ridden. How many times does Nintendo need to out-sell everyone else combined before this message gets trough?
People were disputing Nintendo’s strategy with the Wii and that is what I was responding to. It is just stupid to say that Nintendo only went for the expanded audience and causal gamers in the first couples years of the Wii . You have to ignore all the classic Nintendo follow ups that came out in those years that appealed to Nintendo fans. Some Nintendo fans have stuck around since the NES and those follow ups at least got the gamecube and some lapse N64 gamers to pick the Wii.
You and others like to pretend that there are not core gamers (older or otherwise) that own the Wii. When in fact there is. The problem is that there is not much worth buying outside of Nintendo games. I would bet a good amount of money that the game that got older gamers to pick a Wii more than any other was New Super Mario Bros: Wii.
I never said that they would buy a Wii for this GoldenEye update. I said that Nintendo has already been targeting those gamers from the start with the Virtual console. The Wii is a retro gamers dream with the Virtual console and all the 2d games you can buy at retail or on WiiWare. Retro gamers tend to be older core gamers.
@ tim. i seriously doubt that viral marketers are trolling gamasutra to bash nintendo. if you haven't noticed, this is a core gamers and industry site primarily. you nintendo fans are the minority. you just happen to yell the loudest in these forums. nintendo provides a lot of fun for kids, families, and *you guys*. it's a great system for it's consumers and a very smart business too!
@leon. how's that wiiware/virtual console working out for you there? i guess our definition of core gamer is different since i don't know one core gamer who uses a wii to satisfy their gaming needs, amongst hundreds that i know. i also don't know one developer or publisher clamoring for that huge Wiiware biz. since you seem to have figured out that core gamers don't care about visuals or quality games, can you please help BP contain that darn oil leak ;)
@ephriam. *fanboy* is a term used to refer to nintendo gamers ;)
finally, if you all want to dispute some facts, how about this: PS3 is trending up the most for console, and iTunes platforms is trending up the most for handheld. what happens next year when kinect and move are out? no more unique feature for the Wii maybe? that means the other two consoles provide motion controls, faster engines, higher graphic quality, blue-ray capability, and more third party content partnerships. oh, and the 3rd party publishers have a much wider demo/sensibility to sell into for PS3/360.
Getting back to GoldenEye a bit (well, sorta), I think this does address the rift between "hardcore" gamers and Nintendo. I don't believe this is merely partisan cheering for one console over another - Atari Lynx is way better than Gameboy, btw - I do believe there is an honest frustration. Go back to the 2006 E3 and the unveiling of the Wii. Core gamers were thrilled, there were crowds and endless lines at the show, and the gaming press was enthusiastic. Meanwhile, Playstation 3's show was mercilessly mocked - "for massive damage!"
Yes, we all know Wii Sports and Wii Play, which were clearly Expanded Audience games that followed Nintendo's strategy of Disruption and the Blue Ocean. But remember there was also Zelda, Excite Truck, Mario Galaxy, and the trailer for Smash Bros Brawl. The gaming press went bonkers for the Brawl trailer, especially all the surprise characters.
Still, despite Mario Galaxy and Mario Kart and Zelda and Metroid, there is this sense that the core gamers were abandoned, or overlooked, while Nintendo pursued the Expanded Audience with the Wii Series. Third party developers certainly didn't help. First, they were caught flat-footed when the Wii continually sold out, then they tried to capture Wii Sports' fame with a barrage of cheap, third-string party- and mini-games. Shovelware became a real problem.
I think we need to remember just how long it takes to create a modern game. Productions run as long as two years, and when we realize this, the behavior begins to make sense. First, the industry ignored Nintendo's console. Then, after schedules were freed up from PS360 productions, they misunderstood the Wii market, attributing this success to "casual gamers." The difficulty in reading this market, and learning how to build brand loyalty, coupled with Nintendo's stunning dominance, only frustrated developers further.
Now it's the year 2010, and I think we're seeing a newer strategy emerge. It's the rise of the neo-retro game, or what was considered the "hardcore" games during the 16-bit era. We've seen this begin to rise last year, with the explosion in 2D titles like Muramasa, A Boy and His Blob, Klonoa, and the rise of WiiWare games like Lost Winds.
The capstone, of course, is Super Mario Bros 5, which exploded out of the gates and continues to ride the sales charts many months later. Heck, NSMB DS is still riding near the top of the sales charts. Four years after its release! Isn't that just stunning? It really shouldn't be, since this is what 2D Mario has always done in the past. It's the ultimate killer app, and it opens the door for more games of its kind - modern games with classic game values. And this is where I think we are headed in 2010.
Now here's what I took away from Nintendo's showing at this year's E3: They want to heal the rift between themselves and the core gamers. "Hardcore" gamers were once very loyal to Nintendo, and now they're being welcomed back into the fold. We can see this with the 3DS - notice how aggressive Nintendo is courting all the major developers - and we can see this with the Wii.
Donkey Kong Country Returns. NBA Jam. Kirby's Epic Yarn. GoldenEye. Epic Mickey. The Wii has quietly morphed into the second coming of the Super NES. I've used that phrase before - memorize it. These aren't simple "retro" games, and they can't offer us anything beyond nostalgia, then they deserve to fail. These are new games, modern games, but wrapped in the values of the classic arcade era. This seems to be the agenda at play, and I think we can see the same thing in many Wii games over the past year.
I know it's a cliche for game designers, but you must always create to the strengths of the platform. What works on PS360 won't work on Wii, just as what works on consoles won't work on handhelds, or mobile, or Facebook. You need to find the right groove. I think we've finally discovered that proper groove for the Wii.
"PS3 is trending up the most for console, and iTunes platforms is trending up the most for handheld. what happens next year when kinect and move are out? no more unique feature for the Wii maybe? that means the other two consoles provide motion controls, faster engines, higher graphic quality, blue-ray capability, and more third party content partnerships. oh, and the 3rd part have a much wider demo/sensibility to sell into for PS3/360."
Seems, you didn't notice the unique features of the Nintendo platforms, they are called (amongst others) Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Nintendogs and Pokemon. In the end it is software, that sells hardware, a lesson most most hardware manufacturers didn't learned since the days of the VCS.
On the Wii it weren't the motion controls, that got people hooked, it was Wii Sports. On the DS, it wasn't the touchscreen, it was Nintendogs. Those titles sold better, then the best selling 3rd party titles on other platforms, unless Sony or Microsoft stop relying on technical specs alone, they won't manage to repeat the success of Nintendo.
Sony was able to deliver high quality exclusives on the PS1 and PS2 that expanded the audience (eyeToy, Buzz, Singstar) or convinced Sega and Nintendo fans into buying the Sony console (Gran Turismo, God of War, Crash Bandicoot), but on the PS3 they only relied on 3rd party support. MS on the other side only aimed at the core gamer market and they got their portion from that by buying Bungie and ordering Gears of War from Epic.
But Bungie will be gone soon, and the investments in Rare and Lionhead didn't lead to anything, that was unusual profitable or innovative and it clearly didn't spawned franchises, that will become as successful as 3rd party franchises on the 360 are.
This is the difference to Nintendo, they always managed to keep their franchises the most successful titles on their platforms and because of that, their software titles are their unique features.
i didn't miss all those great nintendo games, but i am too old to appreciate them anymore ;) i'll get my son on a wii in a couple of years probably. these are really fun for young minds who have a youthful appreciation of puzzling and platforming. i still don't think goldeneye is going to capture core midshare over 13 yrs. old.
btw- you did make some really great points with good context christian.
I don't think that GoldenEye will be successful either, here we have the same expectations, but I think it will be for different reasons. My bet is, that Metroid M will sell more copies then GoldenEye, and Metroid M is pretty hardcore. We will see.
Ever seen Call of Duty 4 on the Wii? Doom on my original Playstation looks better (and has a better frame rate). CoD4 also falls into that niche mentioned in the article of cross-platform availability. If it already looks better, runs better, and has better or more features on the XBox 360, Playstation 3, or PC, why bother playing it on the Wii? The ability to wave the Nunchuk to throw grenades in Call of Duty 3 was amusing for three seconds, but did nothing to overshadow the poor quality of the game itself.
Now Nintendo is resorting to remaking the classics that garnered them the hardcore Nintendo fans. Nostalgia can only take you so far. Just look at Hollywood's lazy attempt at generating movie sales by remaking films from as early as eight or even five years prior (here's looking at you, Hulk movies and Fast and the Furious). GoldenEye isn't the only game going through this: Ocarina of Time and Star Fox 64 are getting the same treatment on the Nintendo 3DS. You may think that's not the same, but look at this... Classic game + updated graphics + gimmicky hardware feature = same thing.
I know Nintendo isn't even close to being the only company to remake the classics. But they are the only ones hoping to convert an entire demographic to their cause; a demographic that they essentially abandoned while going for the "golden demographic" of the casual or non-gamer. By now, hardcore gamers know where the action is at, and no amount of rehashing will bring the majority of them back to Nintendo. Kris Graft nailed it on the first sentence.
Besides, the Perfect Dark release on XBox Live Arcade is the best example of nostalgia done right.
1. Controls
They are not nearly precise enough and often times unresponsive.
2. Online service
Nintendo's online service is just abysmal. Period.
3. Graphics
Wii is the bottom of the barrel. Why play this crappy looking thing when a PS3, 360 or even a subpar pc doesn't cost much more? Why did I spend that money on an HD tv if the system can't even handle it?
When the hardcore gamers are going to go play a game, they have a choice. Would they choose something like TF2, MW2 or Halo?
Or are they going to choose "Goldeneye" on Wii starring Daniel Craig?
GoldenEye's primary feature on the other hand isn't to be a core game, but to be a FPS. All FPS are Core games, but not all Core games are FPS and it seems, that Jump'n'Runs, while being Core games at the heart, aren't successful on the 360/PS3 and FPS, while being Core games at the heart, aren't successful on the Wii. I wouldn't say the PS3 isn't a Core console, because Little Big Planet has only mediocre sales, the 360 didn't have any Jump'n'Run at all, but still has many other games aimed at a Core audience. The same applies to the Wii and FPS.
The flop of many FPS-titles on the Wii has many reasons. Technical reasons are part of the problem, but not the main problem. Red Steel 2 did ok for Ubisoft (according to their own statements) and the reason was, that it took the first person mechanics to a new, Wii-type level. Metroid did ok on the Wii, cause it avoided to be a FPS at all. Both of these titles are Wii-exclusives and both are aimed at a Core audience.
It seems Wii-players are interested in first person games, that are different from the traditional FPS.
I loved that post.
As for the article: Did anyone else read: ""People have a very good reason to come to [Wii]. It's the only place you can get a GoldenEye experience in 2010,"
that seems like if it tanks we can expect GoldenEye XBLA or PSN for $15... I think I'll hold off and see if it happens.
Retro experiences really only work well if it has been long enough that only the strange still possess the console in good working order.
Then again, my intense bias against this game may stem from my loathing of Activision.
Nintendo's mistake was that by making their console significantly weaker, third-party exclusives were the only ones likely to sell, yet despite lower development costs, it's still seen as risky to invest too much in a single-console title. A bit of a Catch-22 for all concerned, not helped by the reams of lousy ports third parties released when the Wii was first successful, thus convincing traditional gamers that the console was not for them.
Still, I'm looking forward to this game. GE007 (N64) is my favourite game of all time, so any inspiration they're taking from that game (they've got cheats, non-linear play and stealth in place, all good) plus some modernising (better signposting, not too fond of regenerating health though) is all good in my book.
Last year's Modern Warfare: Reflex Edition seems to have done fairly well (I still haven't played it myself, but I've respected Treyarch ever since their Tony Hawk Pro Skater ports on the Dreamcast). But notice that this was the previous Call of Duty. Meanwhile, the HD Twins got the brand-new Modern Warfare 2, one of the year's hottest games. Where was the Wii version? Why was the most successful console ignored?
This only reinforces the belief that third-party developers do not respect the Wii and its audience. Rightly or wrongly, that audience will become more skeptical over time, and less willing to shell out money for future games. We see this unfold many times. Cartoonish, dumbed-down EA Sports games (notice how Tiger Woods '10, the one "serious" title, is the biggest hit). Dead Space Extraction and Resident Evil Darkside, first-person and third-person adventure games reduced to lightgun shooters, for a console over-saturated with lightgun shooters. PS2 ports like Need for Speed. Yadda yadda...you get the idea.
The bottom line is that developers must respect the platform. This is a motto for all developers, whether it's console, handheld, standard, hi-def, online, or cell phones. Respect the Platform - and respect the audience. Understand what they want, and understand what voids need to be filled. You can't just dump anything on the market and expect a hit.
Are there any great FPS titles on Wii that include 4-player splitscreen? I can't think of one. That's something I've wanted on the Wii ever since the beginning - a fast, intense, multiplayer deathmatch game. I want arcade games. I want Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament. And this void has yet to be filled.
GoldenEye was a shocking surprise to me at E3. I never would have expected it, even though it's precisely what I've been craving. This fits perfectly with the neo-retro vibe of the times, with Donkey Kong Country and Kirby and NBA Jam and Super Mario Bros 5. The Wii has quietly evolved into the second coming of the Super NES, and I think it's long due. Finally, here is an angle for frustrated third-party developers.
The issue of lapsed gamers has never been fully addressed. It's assumed that people always jump to the next generation console, but this hasn't happened. Many classic gamers, fans of 2D games, were left at the side of the road since the Playstation generation. I personally lost most of my interest after Dreamcast died. The arcade game values were discarded, in favor of cinematic games. I think the rise of the new media (internet, mobile, Wii) and social gaming has helped to bring these values back.
I don't know if GoldenEye Wii will become a great game or become a hit. Like many gamers, I remain skeptical but hopeful. I want this game to succeed. I think most of us want that. It does manages to fill a niche in what will be a very crowded holiday season, with Donkey Kong Country, Wii Party, and Just Dance 2 getting all the attention (to say nothing of Mario 5, Wii Fit, and Mario Kart). But the video game scene has always been highly competitive. The arcades were always densely packed with machines, and if classic games could survive and thrive in that highly competitive environment, they can do so here.
I'm terrible at predictions, but count me as cautiously optimistic. I'm crossing my fingers.
I think that this could be a great move for the Wii specifically because it combines nostalgia with a very popular IP (Bond) and puts it into a package that would probably be easy to consume. There's a lot of potential here, and I'm pretty sure the designers aren't trying to go head to head with CoD over this one.
This could also be a chance to appeal to a new, young generation of hardcore gamers. When N64 came out, it was the casual console compared with the marketing of Saturn and Playstation. Also, at the time the really hardcore systems were souped-up PCs. Yet Goldeneye managed to make the N64 seem cool. I think they could do it again.
I should also mention that the Wii's cheap price and the fact that most of the shovelware crap developed for it winds up in the bargain bin quickly is a good factor to the Wii's high sales numbers.
I couldn't agree more.
I don't know, if the "previously disinterested crowd of casual and non-gamers" would buy a 2D Super Mario, that's difficult and frustrating to master or something like Super Smash Bros Brawl, which is only fun, when you are familiar with generations of Nintendo characters.
This is what Nintendo does. They appeal to the casual crowd first, now they are trying to attract "hardcore" gamers by nostalgia, releasing a new Donkey Kong side scroller, Kirby, NBA Jam, Goldeneye.
When I was 16, I might have fallen for this stuff of simply trying to attack my nostalgia. Just reminding me of the "good ol" days is not how you sell a game to get a good following. Nintendo, let's create some new IPs instead of just feeding off nostalgia.
I mean that other FPS for the Wii..I forget the name(Goverment Conspiracies and such..), but it was apparently supposed to bring the hardcore to the Wii finally. It didn't. Now they say this will, Goldeneye. Nostalgia can fool people into buying something, but if thats all it has to offer, it will fall flat on its face.
GoldenEye is from 1997, if you were 16 today, it would mean, you were 3, when GoldenEye was released, seems pretty useless to me, to appeal to the nostalgia of a 16 year old. 16 year olds usually have no sense of nostalgia, cause they are way to young for such things.
widdows is 100% correct, once nintendo addresses the (insightful) problems andrew raises above. so maybe next cycle? to think that a hard core gamer is going to buy a wii for a better gaming experience is like saying....hey, let' go to the shooting range and cack off a box of blanks.
in the mean time, goldeneye looked like a blast at E3...if you're under 13 years old.
They appealed to the new gamers and expanded audience with Wii Sports and Wii Play. That was their big draws for that crowed until Wii Fit hit.
Nintendo began appealing to the lost gamers or retro gamers from the start with the Virtual console. The release of Super Mario Bros Wii expanded their appeal to those gamers (that game appeals to any type of gamer but it is a 2d plat former). This year they are going full retro, which also helps grab and keep those new gamers and Nintendo gamers.
My guess is the end of this year will lead into the year that they go more core with more motion plus games, rpgs and action games. I say this because Zelda ( their top motion plus game) is next year and most likely other core games that were released in Japan will come out over here next year.
I only mentioned Nintendo games because that is what the Wii sells on. Third parties have just been adding filler with a gem here and there.
GoldenEye has a chance if it is a great game. It will not open the flood gates of third parties making top FPS games for the Wii even if it did COD numbers. That ship has sailed. I really don’t think it would change anything at all no matter how it does. No other third party core game that sold well changed anything so why would this one. Third parties will not stop making core games since many have already failed to sell.
i do hear a thematic argument, that I agree with, in that core players are not going to buy a Wii to play this updated port. it's not going to get nintendo into that older market place. they may sell another gazillion units, but not to older/core gamers, in my opinion. the stats just don't add up for that to happen.
btw- there's a specific reason why nintendo has the majority of the hits too. ask any publisher why.
The matter of the fact would be, if Nintendo aimed at the hardcore, it would be dead since the hardcore is dying. The Wii is a nice assembly of not only complete new players but also former gamers. People who left gaming after the US-implosion of 1983, or gamers that left with the 2D-3D transition mid 1990's. So in a way...the Wii is the most hardcore console of all three. It even revived some hardcore favorite genres and series. Or...how slighty shifting what the hardcore is can change someone's analysis.
Nintendo actually did a few simple things this generation
1) Nintendo recognized that graphics don't matter anymore with the avaiable power. So why make a far more expensive console? Sales, not only of the Wii, but also the recent 2D-revival all over the internet, has proven them right.
2) Nintendo recognized that everyone else that didn't game has some valid reasons for this aka Nintendo realized that the "casual" audience is actually quite critical and needs special tailored games for it. Nintendo then put their best teams on making those games. Nintendo's games selling gangbusters while third string ports not selling at all proves their point.
The Wii audience demands high quality games, far more then the actual "hardcore" who will shovel out money for anything hype-ridden. How many times does Nintendo need to out-sell everyone else combined before this message gets trough?
People were disputing Nintendo’s strategy with the Wii and that is what I was responding to. It is just stupid to say that Nintendo only went for the expanded audience and causal gamers in the first couples years of the Wii . You have to ignore all the classic Nintendo follow ups that came out in those years that appealed to Nintendo fans. Some Nintendo fans have stuck around since the NES and those follow ups at least got the gamecube and some lapse N64 gamers to pick the Wii.
You and others like to pretend that there are not core gamers (older or otherwise) that own the Wii. When in fact there is. The problem is that there is not much worth buying outside of Nintendo games. I would bet a good amount of money that the game that got older gamers to pick a Wii more than any other was New Super Mario Bros: Wii.
I never said that they would buy a Wii for this GoldenEye update. I said that Nintendo has already been targeting those gamers from the start with the Virtual console. The Wii is a retro gamers dream with the Virtual console and all the 2d games you can buy at retail or on WiiWare. Retro gamers tend to be older core gamers.
"How many times does Nintendo need to out-sell everyone else combined before this message gets trough? "
That will never happen. The PS360 fanboy is incapable of doing anything but count pixels and polygons from a first person perspective.
@leon. how's that wiiware/virtual console working out for you there? i guess our definition of core gamer is different since i don't know one core gamer who uses a wii to satisfy their gaming needs, amongst hundreds that i know. i also don't know one developer or publisher clamoring for that huge Wiiware biz. since you seem to have figured out that core gamers don't care about visuals or quality games, can you please help BP contain that darn oil leak ;)
@ephriam. *fanboy* is a term used to refer to nintendo gamers ;)
finally, if you all want to dispute some facts, how about this: PS3 is trending up the most for console, and iTunes platforms is trending up the most for handheld. what happens next year when kinect and move are out? no more unique feature for the Wii maybe? that means the other two consoles provide motion controls, faster engines, higher graphic quality, blue-ray capability, and more third party content partnerships. oh, and the 3rd party publishers have a much wider demo/sensibility to sell into for PS3/360.
Yes, we all know Wii Sports and Wii Play, which were clearly Expanded Audience games that followed Nintendo's strategy of Disruption and the Blue Ocean. But remember there was also Zelda, Excite Truck, Mario Galaxy, and the trailer for Smash Bros Brawl. The gaming press went bonkers for the Brawl trailer, especially all the surprise characters.
Still, despite Mario Galaxy and Mario Kart and Zelda and Metroid, there is this sense that the core gamers were abandoned, or overlooked, while Nintendo pursued the Expanded Audience with the Wii Series. Third party developers certainly didn't help. First, they were caught flat-footed when the Wii continually sold out, then they tried to capture Wii Sports' fame with a barrage of cheap, third-string party- and mini-games. Shovelware became a real problem.
I think we need to remember just how long it takes to create a modern game. Productions run as long as two years, and when we realize this, the behavior begins to make sense. First, the industry ignored Nintendo's console. Then, after schedules were freed up from PS360 productions, they misunderstood the Wii market, attributing this success to "casual gamers." The difficulty in reading this market, and learning how to build brand loyalty, coupled with Nintendo's stunning dominance, only frustrated developers further.
Now it's the year 2010, and I think we're seeing a newer strategy emerge. It's the rise of the neo-retro game, or what was considered the "hardcore" games during the 16-bit era. We've seen this begin to rise last year, with the explosion in 2D titles like Muramasa, A Boy and His Blob, Klonoa, and the rise of WiiWare games like Lost Winds.
The capstone, of course, is Super Mario Bros 5, which exploded out of the gates and continues to ride the sales charts many months later. Heck, NSMB DS is still riding near the top of the sales charts. Four years after its release! Isn't that just stunning? It really shouldn't be, since this is what 2D Mario has always done in the past. It's the ultimate killer app, and it opens the door for more games of its kind - modern games with classic game values. And this is where I think we are headed in 2010.
Now here's what I took away from Nintendo's showing at this year's E3: They want to heal the rift between themselves and the core gamers. "Hardcore" gamers were once very loyal to Nintendo, and now they're being welcomed back into the fold. We can see this with the 3DS - notice how aggressive Nintendo is courting all the major developers - and we can see this with the Wii.
Donkey Kong Country Returns. NBA Jam. Kirby's Epic Yarn. GoldenEye. Epic Mickey. The Wii has quietly morphed into the second coming of the Super NES. I've used that phrase before - memorize it. These aren't simple "retro" games, and they can't offer us anything beyond nostalgia, then they deserve to fail. These are new games, modern games, but wrapped in the values of the classic arcade era. This seems to be the agenda at play, and I think we can see the same thing in many Wii games over the past year.
I know it's a cliche for game designers, but you must always create to the strengths of the platform. What works on PS360 won't work on Wii, just as what works on consoles won't work on handhelds, or mobile, or Facebook. You need to find the right groove. I think we've finally discovered that proper groove for the Wii.
"PS3 is trending up the most for console, and iTunes platforms is trending up the most for handheld. what happens next year when kinect and move are out? no more unique feature for the Wii maybe? that means the other two consoles provide motion controls, faster engines, higher graphic quality, blue-ray capability, and more third party content partnerships. oh, and the 3rd part have a much wider demo/sensibility to sell into for PS3/360."
Seems, you didn't notice the unique features of the Nintendo platforms, they are called (amongst others) Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Nintendogs and Pokemon. In the end it is software, that sells hardware, a lesson most most hardware manufacturers didn't learned since the days of the VCS.
On the Wii it weren't the motion controls, that got people hooked, it was Wii Sports. On the DS, it wasn't the touchscreen, it was Nintendogs. Those titles sold better, then the best selling 3rd party titles on other platforms, unless Sony or Microsoft stop relying on technical specs alone, they won't manage to repeat the success of Nintendo.
Sony was able to deliver high quality exclusives on the PS1 and PS2 that expanded the audience (eyeToy, Buzz, Singstar) or convinced Sega and Nintendo fans into buying the Sony console (Gran Turismo, God of War, Crash Bandicoot), but on the PS3 they only relied on 3rd party support. MS on the other side only aimed at the core gamer market and they got their portion from that by buying Bungie and ordering Gears of War from Epic.
But Bungie will be gone soon, and the investments in Rare and Lionhead didn't lead to anything, that was unusual profitable or innovative and it clearly didn't spawned franchises, that will become as successful as 3rd party franchises on the 360 are.
This is the difference to Nintendo, they always managed to keep their franchises the most successful titles on their platforms and because of that, their software titles are their unique features.
btw- you did make some really great points with good context christian.