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  The Ultimate JRPG? - The Results of an Informal Survey Plus a Game Idea
by Robert Boyd on 11/15/11 12:56:00 pm   Expert Blogs   Featured Blogs
26 comments Share on Twitter Share on Facebook RSS
 
 
The following blog was, unless otherwise noted, independently written by a member of Gamasutra's game development community. The thoughts and opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of Gamasutra or its parent company.

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Once we’re done with our current projects and have some money saved up, I’d love to take a few years, maybe hire an extra person or two, and make something truly amazing – an RPG that could stand toe to toe with the classics of the past.

Now I have a pretty good idea of what I’d like in a JRPG, but I was curious to see what others thought on the matter and so I posted the following question on my twitter account: “JRPG fans – what would your ultimate JRPG be like?” I got dozens of responses – many from individuals who work in the video game industry – and the results were interesting.

Below, I present to you the 5 most common elements I saw, in roughly their order of popularity.

1. Control of a Well Written Plot – This was by far the most common element I saw in the responses. Fans want a strong, well thought out plot, but they also want to have some say over what happens.

2. Turn-based battle system – There was a lot of variety in exactly what kind of battle system they wanted (the Grandia, Shin Megami Tensei, and Final Fantasy series were all brought up many times) but one thing was clear – many fans miss the days when turn-based combat was the norm and not the exception.

3. Complex, intricate LV-Up system – Job systems and skill systems were especially popular.

4. Exploration – Players wanted huge worlds with the freedom to explore. No wonder Xenoblade and popular Western sandbox RPGs like Fallout and Skyrim review so well!

5. More adult plots – Fans that grow up on JRPGs in the 80s, 90s, and beyond are now adults and want to be treated as such.

So taking this feedback and my opinions into consideration, here’s a rough premise I came up with.

World is a mix of fantasy & science fiction. Main city in the world is a dystopia ala Midgar that wouldn’t look out of place in Shadowrun. Outside the city, there’s a dangerous wilderness that’s mostly unknown to the civilized world. Main player is a computer that gained sentience and corporeal form (can choose to be either male or female). Main plot has various branches – do you side with those who would use your powers? Go on a quest of self discovery? Seek the quiet life that no one will let you have? There will also be various optional major plot lines ala the Elder Scrolls series guild quests.

Party composition and party member relationships would have an effect on dialogue, plot, available dungeons, etc. None of this “Chie has pledged her undying love to you but her dialogue and actions are still exactly the same in all major plot scenes” nonsense.

Combat will be turn-based and probably loosely based on the Grandia series. LV-Up system would be kind of like the Materia from FF7 except each character has one exclusive Materia that can not be unequipped and individual Materia can be customized ala the Sphere Grid from FF10.

Lots of exploration possibilities. To keep difficulty in control without removing the player’s feeling of progression, each area will have a possible LV range however the LV choosen will be based on things like the player’s progression when they first go to that area. For example, an early area might have a LV range of 1-10 so if you go there right at the beginning, enemies will be permanently locked into LV1 and would stay that way for the entire game. However if you didn’t go there until the end of the game, the enemies would be locked at LV10 (even if you’re say LV50 – still want to make the early area feel like an early area). Conversely, a late game area might have a LV range of 50-60 so if you went there early, it’d get locked into LV50 which might still be way more than you could handle.

2D pixel art and an awesome soundtrack. ’cause that’s just how we do things here.

And now for a quick Q&A:

Will this actually be made? Beats me. Keep in mind that we’re not going to be starting any new projects for a while (gotta finish what we’ve already begun first!) and I scrap ideas almost as quickly as I come up with them so there’s no guarantee this idea will ever turn into anything.

Why do you keep mentioning other games? Don’t you want to be original? This isn’t even at a design document state. Mentioning other games is a quick and easy way to give everyone a general idea. Once a game is further along, that’s when you can start talking details and how to make it more unique.

Aren’t you afraid someone else will steal your ideas? Not particularly. They’re just ideas. Taking these ideas and turning them into an actual high quality game would take a talented team years of work. Plus these ideas are just a starting point – if you gave these ideas to two talented designers and teams, you’d end up with two drastically different games in the end.

 
 
Comments

Ardney Carter
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Regardless whether the game gets made or not, I really like your idea for handling enemy levels. I think it's quite clever and hope it catches on. It also leaves room for tweaking to to generate certain levels of challenge, for instance:



Let's say you want a certain area to be perceived as dangerous if a player reaches it before a certain point in their development. Instead of locking enemy level at player level exactly you could call for enemy level to be player lvl +2 (where player level + 2 does not exceed the area level cap). So if the in-game lore builds up a certian area as being particularly nasty you can have players encounter it and reinforce that reputation through 1st hand experience. Or maybe you want the reverse to be the case because the player has picked up some hidden item. An extra check for said item and suddenly enemies in the area are player level -2.



And that's just from 60 seconds or so of thinking about it. Suffice to say I think it's a really neat tool for making the play experience unique for the user. Nice work.

Markus Pfundstein
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I really liked what I read and i the points you are mentioned are basically the points I miss in modern RPGS. Especially this deep story lines about good and evil , with lovestorys, dramas, etc.. A lot of kitsch too of course, otherwise it wouldn't be a JRPG.

I also miss the Turn Based Battle Systems from back in the days. Especially the Final Fantasy Series had always great challenging battles for the player.



I am currently developing a 2D RPG Engine for iOS and Android in C++ and Open GL and I am pretty far already. Level Editor and Script Engine are working and right now i am implementing the Battle Engine.



The problem with this type of games is the crazy amount of assets you need, together with a great story and great level design. And also not a lot of sprite artists have the skills to draw like these guys from back in the days. I am searching like crazy for people who are willing to draw but most of them are at this angry birds stuff :-)



Well, time will tell. I wish you will go on. Take a look at my stuff, maybe its interesting for you: http://howtomakeitinamsterdam.wordpress.com .. i have a gameplay video online!

Aleksander Adamkiewicz
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The main question I -always- have in these hypothetical conversations is:



Will the art-style be eastern or western?



This is usually the deal-breaker for me, yes the mechanics do matter, but when I see anime faces with giant swords and spiky hair i cant really follow the "well written adult plot" no matter how good it is.



It would be like watching Citizen Kane as portrayed by Micheal Cera or Adam Sandler.

Luis Guimaraes
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There are still many different ways to make both eastern and western art style.



On westarn art-style can be something like Battlefield Heroes, Team Fortress 2 or Leisure Suit Larry, while on eastern you can get the lines of Vagabond, the Kill Bill animated scene and some of The Animatrix shorts: The Second Renaissance / Detective Story / Beyond.

Lars Doucet
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Cool idea! Would you be interested in the common "New Game Plus" feature? I always found that useful for games with branching plot-lines, because it let you go through the game a second time without having to grind or anything, catch anything you'd miss, and explore different story branches.

Robert Boyd
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A New Game Plus option is always nice, especially with games with multiple endings.



Another option would be to save the game whenever the player has to make an important choice, thus allowing the player to go back in time and choose the other option.

Lars Doucet
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One thing I'd always thought might be nice was a "history book" approach to save files where it shows your entire branching save history, and lets you fork off from any point.

Rey Samonte
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I grew up with the Final Fantasies and Dragon Quest(Dragon Warrior) games. One of the things that might have been mentioned but not listed are the optional mini-games that the player can play that doesn't have an affect on the main plot, but can reward the player with items or abilities which can help him through the game. They were often fun, little distractions. However, I must admit, I started to get turned off when those mini games became card games.



Granted, I don't play as many JRPGs as I used to, but I still enjoy one from time to time. Dragon Quest VIII's monster arena game was cool. It encouraged you to explore the world and collect monsters and form unique monster teams. White Knight Chronicals also has some interesting ideas about building your own town.



I did pick up an indie title called Pier Solar not too long ago that was developed for the Sega Genesis/Mega Drive. Hard little title but it brought back some fond memories. :)

Joe Cooper
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I think I might play this.



I love turn based. This idea that things have to be so un-abstract and it must feature combat maneuvering are nothing more than developer's fashions. Menus work great and one of the best selling games of all time (Pokemon) is a classic menu-driven JRPG modeled after Final Fantasy Legend.

Mohamed S
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In my opinion, menu-driven battle systems are outdated. A friend of mine recently told me that new games often improve on older games by "making things faster". Menu-driven battle systems feel slow to me today. It takes too many button presses to command one party member to use a particular spell or skill. I'm a huge fan of the Final Fantasy games, which mostly feature menu-driven battle systems. However, I believe that the "button-driven" battle systems in Valkyrie Profile 1 and 2 are superior to the menu-driven battle systems in games like Final Fantasy and Pokemon. Have you ever tried out Valkyrie Profile's controls? They're great because they allow you to issue commands to multiple characters simultaneously and with fewer button presses.

Robert Boyd
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I'm not a big fan of the Valkyrie Profile series, but I do appreciate their efforts to speed up menus with innovative controls.



The PS1 Arc the Lad games are another example of games that try to simplify controls in an effort to speed up the gameplay.

Mohamed S
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I also don't consider myself to be a fan of the Valkyrie Profile series. I thought they had too many flaws. Unfortunately, I've never played the Arc the Lad games. I'm interested in learning how they simplify controls and speed up gameplay.

Robert Boyd
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Here's a link to a battle video from the original Arc the Lad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOuwt2KDupo



The biggest thing is that rather than require the player to open up a menu to do everything, attack is mapped to a button. So you can just run up to enemies and press a button rather than having to select Attack and then a target from various menus.

Mohamed S
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Thanks for the link, Robert.

Hakim Boukellif
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Personally, I feel the the the larger amount of mistakes I end up making in a turn-based game where the actions are assigned to buttons are more annoying than the half a second I lose from selecting an option from a menu.

Mohamed S
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Interesting view, Hakim. I'll keep that in mind. I'm currently designing a JRPG battle system on paper, and I've been toying around with using "button controls" (instead of "menu controls"). It's good to hear your view on the subject.

Philip Neubauer
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I agree. Turn based is the basis for JRPG structure. Pokemon does it well, but that series could stand an option to have bigger party battles. @Robert I appreciate that Arc the Lad 1-3 are getting a little recognition. When they were first released (in Japan) they felt like the natural next step in JRPG battle systems. As a matter of fact, I modeled the battle system for my game 'Stone Age Square Battle' after them. Since it fits well into the topic of JRPG style games ... check out the free Demo at www.graveltrain.com I tried to implement Arc style in a mouse/keyboard context.

Shawn Covington
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I think the issue with Menus is not that they're outdated, but that no one ever takes Occam's razor to them. Where you don't need a menu, you don't need a menu, simple as that.



Consider Advance Wars' menus vs it's predecessor, SFC wars (people in the west might say SNES wars.). Every time you move a unit in SFC wars, you are presented with that unit's entire menu, which then takes a second or two to draw, and another second or two to navigate to the option you want- usually "wait", because you didn't have anything to attack, but attack was the default option. Advance wars' menu only shows available options, and the latency in menu flyout was virtually eliminated. (and no more pesky turns that involved moving 22 units: "move, A, uparrow, A. next unit, move, A, uparrow, A. next unit...")



Should an RPG give you an "item" button if you don't actually have any combat usable items? Should an RPG give you a defend option if you don't have a shield? How many menu layers or button presses should it take to achieve a given result? Is the option you're offering the player even an option? Is the option such a no-brainer that you should simply assume he'll want to do it and put it first?



The question isn't "Which is better", the question is "This breaks or slows down the player's immersion, what can I do to fix it?"

Luis Guimaraes
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I think you just filled what was lacking from an idea I was wondering to develop... Nothing of an JRPG though, but thanks!

Mohamed S
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I'm currently designing a JRPG on paper, so this article is relevant to what I'm doing. I was pleasantly surprised to learn that turned-based battle systems were a common element in your responses. I assumed that most gamers would prefer real-time battle systems. I guess gamers are drawn to the strategic gameplay provided by turn-based battle systems. I'm not surprised that gamers want intricate skill/job systems. Complex skill/job systems allow gamers to strategize and customize their party.



In my opinion, JRPGs today are weakest in points 4 and 5: exploration and adult plots. I certainly didn't appreciate Final Fantasy XIII's narrow, corridor-like environments and cardboard-cutout towns. And I agree that many JRPGs today have plots that seem childish to me.

Robert Boyd
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Well, keep in mind that people are more likely to want what they don't have. It's quite possible that more people enjoy action hybrid RPG systems than turn-based ones, however the turn-based fans are more vocal since fewer games are coming out with turn-based battles.

Mohamed S
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That's a great point, Robert. Thank you for pointing that out.



It does seem that there are fewer new turn-based RPGs. Lately, I've been thinking that a studio could profit by taking advantage of the shortage of turn-based RPGs. A good studio could make a lot of sales by satisfying demand. This reminds me of the 2D fighting genre. For a few years, there was a major shortage of 2D fighters. It appeared as if gamers were only interested in playing 3D fighters like Tekken and Virtua Fighter. Then Capcom released Street Fighter IV, and all of a sudden, now there are many 2D fighters (Mortal Kombat, BlazBlue, King of Fighters XIII, Marvel vs. Capcom 3, Street Fighter X Tekken). A good turn-based RPG could revitalize the genre the way Street Fighter IV revitalized the 2D fighting scene.

Igor Chuprov
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I just wanted to say from the point of view of a gamer (I'm not a game dev, but I like to read gamasutra), I would definitely love a turn based RPG!



I'm getting tired of "real time" action combat. Sometimes I feel my reflexes are bad and I could accidentaly select the wrong action, which is why I long for turn based combat. It gives me time to think about my next move. I don't mind that it's "slow".



I remember when I played Chrono Trigger on the DS, how it would be great if there was an RPG made with today's tech but with similar story depth and character depth. It seems story and characters don't get much development lately as devs seem to focus on the "pretty" or making things "faster".

Christie O'Connor
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I rather enjoyed the battle system utilized in Tales of The Abyss - mainly the different combos I could make with various attack and magic skills(Although the game often failed to register properly which move I wanted to make).

Sherman Chin
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After coding our own 3D RPG engine, I decided to use the RPG Maker engine instead because it took us enough time to just polish the story, environment and character development. Perhaps after the 3 episodes of our story is done, we will go back to our own engine again and this article would prove to be very useful. For now, please do check out our Alpha Kimori JPRG at:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=93036357
It is also set in a sci-fi fantasy world and has a pretty similar story as you proposed although it might not seem so at first! ^_^

Sherman Chin
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Oh! Forgot to mention that my company, Sherman3D (www.Sherman3D.com) does 2D sprite pixel artwork and animation so if you ever need them for your game, you know who to call. ^_~

Also forgot to mention that you can also check out our two completed Alpha Kimori games at: http://www.AlphaKimori.com

Thanks! ^_^


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